It's just too good to ignore. However, anytime the existing Poly-B is disturbed, the next connection down the line may start to leak a few days to months later. Very frustrated right now. The connectors are created without the use of solders or chemicals, so even if you put them in tightly, you might see them leak or come apart. JavaScript is disabled. wirsbo is a great name, nonetheless. I've told them about their problem atleast 6 months but they dont seem to care,today I didn't say anything. Whether you are using a clamp or crimp connection system, the most affordable PEX repair method is by using brass fittings withstainless steelorcopper crimp rings. We welcome your comments and Plus, they are more affordable and easier to install. Slight damages to the tubings barrier layers will not decrease the tubes integrity. This means that even if you installed them tightly, they might still come apart or leak. is definitely pex a. its the souix cheif brand of tube and rings, sold at menards, it does have the ridges on the Rings. However, if the kink occurred on a bent part of the PEX pipe, the kink might re-develop if the said method was used. Pressure test your piping system according to your local building requirements. Also, did you get the compression fittings from PEXSUPPLY.com as well? They are flexible and are freeze-resistant which makes them also ideal in cold climates. No, you cant. It's at the joint where a vaulted ceiling meets the wall. All information is provided "AS IS." You should check them periodically to avoid future problems in your piping system. Degradation and embrittlement of PEX piping are accelerated by stress. AH i did, sorry sir claim denied failed to use qualified professionals to make alterations to your home. We bought a used tool off of ebay and bought the head on pexsupply.com. Find the PEX tube that has a problem with the connectors. We are using Pex A and yes, we got all of the fittings at Pex supply. they are only going to reimburse you for the new fitting if it fails. Did you make sure you turned the tool each time you cranked it? PEXa and PEXb are the most common. Can you post a picture? there are a lot of plumbers out there betting on that. The system is repaired. NOTE DoNOTheat your PEX pipe using a torch. I could swivel it around though. For clamp/cinch or crimp connection methods, you need to calibrate your tools before you start with your installation. They are cheaper to acquire and to install. One benefit of using cross-linked polyethylene is that it is resistant to freezing. I'm a civil PE as well. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. Accidental holes may occur, but most plumbing leaks happen at connection spots or joints which are caused by incorrect installation. . Sometimes you trust newer technologies like the automobile, over your feet. David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska, This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. I wish I had read all your comments before I started my plumbing project. Put in the support sleeve on this end so that the tube does not collapse. The brass nut should be threaded to the part that faces the tube's end. There was a bad batch of Waterline products, including 1/2" pex 90's and 3/4" x 1/2" pex tee's. There are special tools that you might need for repairing the connectors, but you should rent them instead of purchasing since you will only be using them for this purpose. The photograph below shows an image of an example of a typical PEX failure at a connection to an expansion fitting. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Stephen Hawking: If the government is covering up knowledge of Aliens, they are doing a better job of it then they do at anything else. Theres a decent chance leaking like this will clear up with time, but pressurizing early will slow this process and you can still end up with bits of water where they shouldnt be. Is there something I am missing? as far as labor to access or repair it ? If it's a crimp system and it's leaking at the joint, then the crimpers will need to be adjusted. however I only waited a couple minutes before pressurizing, and I didn't rotate the tool. If the pressure remains the same, it means that the pipeline does not leak. What i meant to say was how might one remove, say, 1 month old dried flux on the soldered joint. Copper pipes and fittings have been around longer than most of us have been alive. probably user error when I installed them 12 years ago. I have noticed that the Milwaukee and DeWalt power tools do the rotation automatically. You can read more onPEX crimp vs PEX clamphere. Here are a few possible reasons your installation is not working: And you waited 8 years to make your very helpful comment! More breaks to come! I had a small leak. Poly-B pipe was pulled off the market a few years ago. oh and when the insurance company asked who did the work. There are potential problems with the use of expansion fittings including 1) the teeth on the tool damages the inside of the tubing by placing indents into the inside surface, and 2) the stress/strain on the expanded tubing are high as revealed in the finite element stress analysis below. Learn how to measure, cut, and build window casing made of cellular PVC, solid wood, poly-ash boards, or any common molding material. Notice thedamage to the inside surface caused by the teeth of the expansion tool and the cracks thatformed on the inside surface resulting from embrittlement of the PEX material accelerated bythe additional stress of the expansion. The problem is that it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture out of the air to continue its attack on the copper. in doing my research it sounds like the PEX a or uponor fittings are the ones that appeal to me the most due to their flexibility and ease of use. When was the last time you calibrated your crimper? Good fire suppression backup to my ABC extinguisher. The electric powered tool does this automatically Not sure if that is the cause though. PEX pipes are not actually prone to leaking. I did not expect this at all after the research I have done on this. Thanks. Provided the installer wiped the flux after sweating his joints. Now go cut it out and see why..its easier than guessing. are loath to be on the receiving end of a class-action suit a la ploybutylene piping. Ensure you cut your pex straight, cutting it at an angle will cause a leak, Rotate tool when expanding, wait 15-20 minutes before re-pressurizing. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Supposedly it will never leak . These connectors are made without using chemicals or solders. Rose, Expert insights on techniques and principles. I hate to sound like a dinosaur, but this stuff sounds too good to be true. A forum community dedicated to professional plumbers. You bought the Pro Pex Expander tool? PEX is the abbreviation for cross-linked polyethylene. Straighten the PEX tubing to reduce the tension on the kink. For the original poster, here's my take on various piping technologies: Poly-butylene plastic water pipes were on the market for some 25-30 years. And those Chinese galvanized fittings of 15 years ago that were so crappy - pinhole leaks and off-spec thread sizes? Insulation etc id req'd. Ya never have to use a hair dryer to keep copper from leaking. This occurs when the waters chemistry causes selective zinc leaching from brass alloys which weakens the fitting and results in leakages. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Cross-linked polyethylene, popularly known as PEX, has been widely used for water piping, insulation, and heating systems. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. My electrical answers are based on 2017 NEC, you may have local amendments. For what its worth, agreeing with another poster, the expansion tool from Milwaukee is worth every penny. Once the installer decides on whether to use brass or plastic fittings, he or she then has to decide whether to use standard size fittings or use expansion fittings. For crimp connection systems, always use a Go/No-Go gauge to make sure that your connections are accurate and secure. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. All rights reserved. View our Privacy Policy here. I have about 12 fittings leaking on the cold water side, As we know when you have an acid problem it will show up on the hot water side first. submitted to our "DoItYourself.com Community Forums". There were over a dozen mechanical crimped joints in the shower area alone! Everywhere I've read, it should be rotated each time you expand. Determine the leak location of PEX expansion fittings. If you have those, what do you do? Do not touch it. Next step is to re-apply a new joint in the area. Just looking at these pipes made me nervous. My experience in systems engineering tells me that 95% of all problems occur at interface points, be they electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic, or mechanical. That looks exactly like the Wirsbo expansion tool I use for all my work. Now copper connections will last the life of the house. The fitting is quickly inserted and the PEX shrinks back down with a death grip over the metal fitting. Use the PEX 3-part fittings to do this. problems contact webmaster@doityourself.com. Follow the installation tips in your manufacturers manual regarding freeze prevention and freeze protection. While relatively new in the US, PEX has been in use successfully in Europe for over 40 years. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. In past years I had always used copper tubing for my home plumbing projects. I compressed the ring with a worm gear clamp for a month or so (would not have had to wait that long). I've refused to do a repair on one place where the copper pipes were so badly corrodedthat imo the house needed a complete R&R the owners did not want to do. Sue Home Depot for stocking crap? The heated part can also expand slightly, but this is okay. OK, thats the manually version. So that warranty sounds like it was written by insurers and/or bean-counting lawyers and not by a technical group. Stress in the PEX material facilitates oxidative degradation of the PEX causing it to become brittle at the high-stress point. Any paste flux residue that didn't get hot enough to turn black is still corrosive, but not nearly as corrosive as the water soluble stuff. As time goes by, the surface temperature gradually rises, and the location of the leaking pipeline will rise to a very high temperature, and a peak will be formed at the leaking point, where the temperature of the leaking point will be much higher than the temperature of other parts of the pipeline. When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions. You may freely link And IMO, some Civils can make good off-hours plumbers. During this process, the kink starts to disappear. Repairing a PEX connector is something that you can do on your own. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. And which has higher reliability, a soldered, metal-metal joint, or a mechanically-crimped platic-metal joint? After the leak point of PEX expansion fittings is determined, it must be determined. Remove these and prepare the new ones that you will put in. Or just suck it up and pay out of your own pocket? What should get wiped off is the flux residue, once the sweated joint has cooled. The heated tube will become transparent within 2 to 4 minutes. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Notice the, damage to the inside surface caused by the teeth of the expansion tool and the cracks that, formed on the inside surface resulting from embrittlement of the PEX material accelerated by, the additional stress of the expansion. suggestions. Oh give me a home where the Wirsbo roams. Poly-B on copper fittings with metal compression rings holding them in place. I don't believe they're saying this material will fail in one year or ten. so I made a transition down the basement from CPVC to pex, installed some valves in the basement in line with the PEX pipe, and ran the new pipes up the walls and through a bracket for stub out. This is done by heating the PEX pipe at a temperature higher than the pipes melting point which is around 270F. As far as heating up the fittings I have 1/2" 90s about a foot away from the tees without any leaking. You also need expansion connections to finish this repair. These weak areas aresticky to the touch, from what appears to be old flux residue (you know how flux drips from a jointwell, the corrosion follows the same pattern). Exclusive RemedyIt is expressly agreed that the exclusive remedies under this limited warranty shall be at the option of Wirsbo Company to" issue a refund, repair or replace any article which is proven to be defective. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. Add:358 Weiyi W. Road, Chongshou Industrial Zone, As for the warranty - the heck with it. Below are the tips you can follow to avoid leaks on your PEX piping system: The fittings used in PEX crimping and PEX clamping are the same. If the PEX expansion fittings leak, the pressure will be difficult to maintain for a long time. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. You folks are GREAT. seen it more than once, call a plumber that's not like changing your kitchen sink faucet. Any help would be extremely appreciated. Here, we are going to show you how to fix kinks as well as PEX holes and leaking PEX connectors on your own. Each method uses different tools and different ring types but their style is similar. To ensure our content is always up-to-date with current information, best practices, and professional advice, articles are routinely reviewed by industry experts with years of hands-on experience. I'll stick with proven technology. Consider that when you plumb with metal, you don't get any warranty. 1995-2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. I'd never heard this before. Take the PEX tubing cutter and make a clean cut on it. Questions of a Do It Yourself nature should be In order to be able to insert the larger diameter expansion fitting into the end of the PEX pipe, the end of the pipe is expanded using an expansion tool like shown in the figure below. Try it and post your results. Do PEX connections come loose and fail? While doing home inspections, I've noticed that in older neighbourhoods, some houses'copper pipe fittings are practically seeping water, other fittings haveminute water droplets slowly diffusing to the outside. I'm attaching pictures of my PEX stub out and of the tool I used. Based on this, the user can roughly determine the location of the leak, and then a small area of ground can be excavated. Since the PEX expansion fittings road system is buried underground, there are certain limitations in inspection and maintenance. The conventional repair method involves replacing the damaged section of the PEX pipe with a new one by crimping. :thumbup: I'm just wondering though as I have never used pex, lets just say the hair dryer stops the leak??????????? As shown in the figure below, expansion fittings are larger in diameter than the inside of the pipe. One of those green 3M scouring pads, with soapy water,wouldloosen the crusty stuff easily enough- finish off with the rag. A ten-year life for a behind-the-wall plumbing connection just isnt long enough, and a one year life is just ridiculous. The Wirsbo pex uses a PEX sleeve over the fitting end, and the entire tubing and sleeve is expanded with a special toolto fit over the metal fitting. Feel free tocontact usif you need any help. Yes, I have a house full of the stuff and HATE it. You can get 80%+ of your money back if you buy it new, and relative to the cost of a plumber its a no brainer. You can use it to cut both small and large tubing diameters. Also make sure you use Pex A, it is more flexible than Pex B or Pex C. Last thing is to wait about 30 minutes after installing the ring before repressurizing. However, you need to make sure that the temperature of the air that reaches the pipes surface will not go over 330F. How might one remove flux remnant after cooling? "could you elaborate a bit on that and the mechcanical/chemical involvement.". it seemed like I could twist the fitting back and forth and shove it further onto the Barb and it would stop leaking but I'm worried that it will just start up again later. Is he the only plumber in town, Videos make things much easier than it looks at least you had leaks now and not a ripped joint a month later, when your out of town maybe? Press J to jump to the feed. PEX/copper push fitting good enough for garage hose bib line? A PVC cutter is designed to cut different pipe sizes up to 2 inches in diameter. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When the torch overheats the tubing, your PEX pipes life expectancy might be compromised. Rm 1401-1410, Block A1, Guangzhou Greenland Central Plaza, Shenzhou Rd, Huangpu District, Guangzhou, China 510530. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The use of expansion fittings places significant additional stress on the wall of the pipe making the pipemore prone to chemical attack and degradation by chlorinated water. Acidic water could be your whole problem. While in my crawlspace, I found a leaking 3/4 pex connection. Sign up to get regular product updates and promotion offer. Thus, you can also use them to cut PEX and CPVC pipes. Come join the discussion about the industry, safety, finishing, tools, machinery, projects, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Welcome. For this, you can follow the same steps listed in the next section. Sharply bending the tubing causes the tubing to kink. The three types of PEX are PEXa, PEXb, and PEXc. Sometimes cold temps, cold water may seep on those fittings and the hot air can seal em up. I have been using Wirsbo Pex for almost ten years, no leaks, except with brass fittings, I use plastic fittings whenever possible. Hot, soapy water.If I understand correctly, the fraction of the flux that really needs to be removed is water soluble and comes off fairly easy. I'm wondering if maybe I didn't wait long enough to turn the water pressure on or, because of the cool weather it takes a while for the fittings to set back into place and be leak proof? The pipe is designed tohandle the stress of normal water pressure. The following case study is the property of Plastic Expert Group and cannot be copied or distributed without prior permission. The one that is $400 by Milwaukee?? Try getting a hair dryer and blow warm air across those fittings and see if the problem stops? Copyright Not my problem. >> The older stuff is not water soluble.Yes, I know it's not water soluble out of the jar, but after it's been heated to soldering temperature (and often beyond, if you're no better with a torch than I am), much of the residue is water soluble, and it's the water soluble part that really needs to be cleaned off. My experience is that you need to use the rings with the ridge so the ring does not slide up the pipe during expansion. sorry for being blunt. However, you do not always need to call a professional plumber when you can do the repairs on your own. You could install and acid neutralizer as well. Cixi, Ningbo, Zhejiang China 315334, E-Mail:[emailprotected][emailprotected], How To Determine If PEX Expansion Fittings Are Leaking, Since the PEX expansion fittings road system is buried underground, there are certain limitations in inspection and maintenance. :). Toxic, but great.). Fittings and tubing are cheap, and you sure don't get a warranty with copper (and it can corrode and leak, so it's not foolproof either). Although I don't know too much about interior plumbing, I can handle all the outside and subsurface stuff.. FWIW, I have enough faith in PEX, and it's track record in Europe, that I am using it for two floors of radiant heat and ALL of my potable water plumbing in the new house I'm building. are there any other reasons that I should be looking for why every single expansion fitting leaks? Has anyone found a failed PEX connection? Does heat need to be applied? There are 3 methods on how you can fix a kinked PEX pipe: If the kink in your PEX pipe is not that bad, you can just carefully round the tubing using smooth pliers. Not necessarily but will clue you in to some better solutions to maintain the product. Recently my friends have raved about PEX tubing and its many advantages. Since the PEX expansion fittings road system is burie []. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Once the pipeline leaks and other problems are difficult to detect in time, then when the user uses the PEX expansion fittings road system, How can I determine if PEX expansion fittings are leaking? 2022 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. So a wet rag will remove the really damaging flux residue, while a hot, soapy rag and a little elbow grease will remove all of it. They can last for up to 200 years given that they are not exposed under direct sunlight. Maybe he just bought his pex from people who store it like this..This pic was taken today at a supply house. Then stretched a new ring to fit over the expanded PEX, and re-did. How to Finish Drywall Around a Shower Enclosure, Reusable Flood Bags for Fast Bulk-Water Control, Keep Craft Alive Podcast: Ep.18, Kate Hersey and the Minnesota Tool Library, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/wrnty/war_doc_txt.htm, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Pretty Good House Book Excerpt: Copper Farmhouse, 10 Dos and Don'ts for Electric In-Floor Heat, Framing Stairs to an Out-of-Level Landing, Good-Looking and Long-Lasting Traditional Gutters, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: William B. ;). I have a home with a flat roof top. Although there are various PEX connector types you can use, the most recommended ones for existing PEX pipes areinsert fittings. The use of fittings that are the same diameter as the, inside of the PEX pipe and crimp fitting results in a more reliable joint because of the lower. The most common fittings are brass and plastic. Plus, get tips for a clean and solid installation. Double check you bought the correct 'cold expansion' fittings, I'm sure Menards sells both types. Thanks for taking the time to respond Reach4, Terry, and breplum. Tell us, did you depressurize before using the heat gun? Now, ask yourself a simple question: If a house is plumbed with the same material throughout, will it be more reliable than a house plumbed with two different materials mechanically joined at dozens of interface points? PEX manufacturers (and their insurers!) Let the pipe cool down until it turns opaque again. Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice. The manufacturers lost a few class action suits because the original plastic fittings failed over time. There are several different types of fittings used to assemble a PEX piping system. There are no supply stores in the area so I feel as though I am at a loss here. I've been wanting to upgrade to PEX since I've gotten several leaks in the CPVC fittings over the years. A community dedicated to helping people with advice on personal home improvement projects. Choose a floor heating company with professional PEX expansion fittings installation and suppression experience to ensure that the installed PEX expansion fittings do not leak. If done by someone not certified, they have no way of knowing if the install was done correctly, thus the difference in warranty time. Place the ring on one end of one tube and a crimp style adapter into one end of the other. I think this problem is deeper then the usual. Thatrealtor hates me now. Among the most common issues of leaking pipe connections are improper installation practices, especially for push-to-connect fittings. If a non-qualified technician makes the connections, they are only guaranteed for one year. I'm cutting out the Poly-B, and using compression fittings to PVC adapters and regular PVC. All rights reserved. Unfortunately, there is only one plumber in our area that works with this. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. You must log in or register to reply here. new PEX expansion install https://imgur.com/gallery/uRw9GTr, new PEX expansion tool https://imgur.com/gallery/Eb5IkZQ. What then is the permanent solution???? Plastic Expert Group & Failure Labs Copyright 2022 Toll Free USA: (877) 668-4345 International: +1 (989) 281-4465, www.plasticpipefailure.com www.plasticfailure.com, Plastic Failure Services: Molding Defects Pipe Failure Analysis Materials Testing Consultants Plastic Failure PEX Failure Polymer Consulting, PROBLEM:Defective PEX pipes with expansion joints leak causing water damage, expansion fittings places significant additional stress on the wall of the pipe making the pipe, more prone to chemical attack and degradation by chlorinated water. The heat gun must have done it then. The crimp should be in the middle of the ribbed part of the adapter. Put the jaws of the PEX crimping tool right on top of the ring and bring the two handles together. If they are placed in a sunlit area for even as little as 30 days, they will start to get brittle and be destroyed. DoItYourself.com, founded in 1995, is the leading independent Also important to rotate the tool several time during expansion, particularly for 3/4 inch or larger pipe. You need to do either the PEX clamping or crimping method to secure your connections. P.S. This is whereTubomart, a professional manufacturer of plumbing materials, can help you. then I turn my water back on. The fittings usually are metal, with copper or plastic crimp rings. PEX is often portrayed as a point-point plumbing system when it actually has _mechanical_ crimped connections at almost every fitting. A bit late to this party, but for any future redditors: you need to wait longer than five minutes, especially if its cold.