Like most sites, this site uses cookies to make it work. Would you recommend the bike to a friend? Chain Reaction Cycles - What do the manufacturers say about it? The revenue from adverts helps to fund our site. Well built frame and fork and the finish is fine. Waiting for a bike company to offer a lifetime of free rides outdoors to anyone who cancels their Soul Cycle membership and buys a bike. Tel 01225 588855. It could have a slightly wider gear range but otherwise its uncompromised. There are also fully concealed cables. - Campsites Especially one looking to get into cycling for fitness. Tell us about the geometry of the frame and fork? Thank you for helping us improve our site. Our pre-production sample was missing eyelets on the fork but there are blanks by the dropout where they could go Boardman assure us thats the case. Advertising, commercial: sales [at] road.cc In a heartbeat. I'll endeavour to get a Shizuoka on test for a more instructive comparison. Cookie Policy Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? Excellent brakes. Frame features include: lightweight alloy frame which is constructed of alloy triple butted tubing (with smooth welds), custom tube profiles that have been designed specifically for the forces and performance criteria of offroad riding, oversize box section chainstays for increased power transfer, asymmetric chainstays with rear disc brake caliper mounting for increased brake performance, and curved wishbone seatstays for enhanced comfort. Big, strong, high top speed and track skills for positioning. Strangely though, not in an out and out girlie way. If you're thinking of buying this product using a cashback deal why not use the road.cc Top Cashback page and get some top cashback while helping to support your favourite independent cycling website. Throw a set of 29 inch mtb wheels on there (probably what it has now rather than 'road' specific). Let us know, Please don't enter personal info. Really well considered geometry. If you like road.cc, but you dont like ads, please consider subscribing to the site to support us directly. The chainstays arent very long though, so youll need to use smaller panniers for heel clearance. Tapered head tubes are becoming more common, stiffening the steering response and adding durability to the more heavily loaded lower bearings. Hoy Bikes are the obvious rival, similarly using an Olympian's industry clout and a major bike chain's direct purchasing power. Since 2009 she has been working as partofthe road.cc review team whilst championing women's cycling on the side, most notably via two years as editor of the, sadly now defunct,UK's first andonly women's cycling mag, erm, Women's Cycling. These look ideal but there listed as 10/11 speed. They roll well but it's hard to comment on how hard wearing they are without a few hundred miles under wheel. SUMMER SALE | Try 3 issues of Cycling Plus magazine for 5 + Get a pair of Lusso cycling socks. Good stopping power with sensitivity. SRAM X5 and Microshift shifting is coupled with Avid BB5 disc brakes, and an FSA Vero Compact 48/34 crankset combined with a Shimano CS5700 cassette should give enough of a gear range to get you round town. Did you enjoy riding the bike? The saddle isnt the most comfortable, but isnt actually bad. You could go for a more upmarket Boardman hybrid model, but as the prices start to rise steeply, it would seem to be a law of diminishing returns as the grams drop off ever more slowly and the gear ranges increase at a similar pace; for most leisure riders the Hybrid Comp is a great bike, combining sensible features of road and mountain bikes and represents great value for money. Power transfer was a little lacklustre, but not bad. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. For the 1,299.99, you also get Shimano 105 2x10-speed gears and brakes as well as an FSA Gossamer Pro 50/34 chainset and Mavic Aksium wheels. As a subscriber you can read road.cc ad-free, from as little as 1.99. State the frame and fork material and method of construction. Stable and reliable in descent. Mr Boardman's designers have played it very safe indeed on the top carbon model by making the high-performance Team Carbon Fi almost as bang-on-trend stealthy as its male stablemate. The MTB Comp fi hardtail mountain bike comes down in price compared with the current model, from 699.99 to 649.99. Relaxed to ride. The all-carbon frame comes in three sizes, with top tube lengths measuring 52.5 (SM), 54 (MD) and 55.5cm (LG). It looks and feels so sporty and climbs so well that its a little surprising when theres a slightly lack of oomph when you put your foot down on the flat. Boardman fi hybrid comp 2012 - replacement wheels? So not only do they not get a deserved medal, they have to pay the twats at the UCI 172 eachbecause they, rightly, performed a small Milan looks like the perfect lead-out man to me while he learns. How was the bike in terms of height and reach? Change the tyres and turn up at a cyclo-cross race. The four-bike range sees a number of upgrades to the current offering, while keeping the model types fixed at two road bikes, a mountain bike and a hybrid. Did it do particular things well or badly? If you dont want to subscribe, please turn your ad blocker off. He also contributes toA to B magazine,Bike EuropeandEurobike Show Daily. Terms and conditions of use. It's more about the journey, the character of different parts of the country, the author's and Editorial, general: info [at] road.cc On the downside it has fewer gears and a narrower gear range; perhaps a case of swings and roundabouts. Saddles are an extremely personal component anyway, and its virtually impossible to please everyone. About our reviewerRichard Peaceis the author of the official English-languageguidebook to the Veloscenie Paris-Mont-Saint Michelbike route and theSustrans guide to the London-Paris Avenue Verte. Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff, 2022 Pistonheads Holdco Limited, All Rights Reserved, PistonHeads is a registered trademark of CarGurus Ireland Limited, Pistonheads Holdco Limited, c/o Legalinx Limited, 3rd Floor, 207 Regent St, London W1B 3HH, United Kingdom. The one supplied is not at all bad though. Did any part of the bike feel too stiff or too flexible? Fucks sakes. Terms and Conditions. It's one of the reasons why a 5'4" (1.63m) woman almost invariably looks uncomfortable on a 'racing' style bike and the situation isn't helped by the same average-height woman having longer legs and a shorter torso than the man of equivalent height. View our media pack. Chris Boardman won an Olympic cycling gold back in 1993 and went on to break the fabled 'hour' record. Which components had the most effect (good or bad) on the bike's stiffness? This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google So, was it worth the wait? Aluminium frame good and stiff. Terms and conditions of use. The bottom gear of 34x28T isnt bad, but theres a 48/34T compact chainset and 11-32T cassette in the Apex range wed pick both. All material FarrellyAtkinson (F-At) Limited, Unit 7b Green Park Station BA11JB. Tell us about the materials used in the frame and fork? Thats because theyre sold solely through UK motoring and leisure chain Halfords, which relieves the pressure of dealer margins and means more money in the budget for, say, a groupset one tier higher. The overall score is not just For more information on the Boardman fi range, visit www.boardmanbikes.com/fi/index.html and www,halfords.com. The result is a bike thats a true all-rounder, suitable for year round training rides, urban duties, commuting, light touring and general fitness riding. - Guided Would you change the wheels or tyres? on 22 November 2013, Boardman Hybrid Comp 2014Priced from 499.99 at Halfords. At this price, most of the spec fits into the good quality budget category but seems pretty well-chosen. A sporty road geometry frame is matched up with flat bars, bar ends, SRAM mountain bike drive-train and transmission and mechanical disc brakes. Help us to make it better. A little ungainly, but pretty tight on corners. If so, was it a problem? It has the looks of an urban warrior, but the temperament of a girl guide sporty, but sensible and well behaved. "We've taken the experience of World-class riders, coupled with my own experience to create a specific range for females who enjoy cycling- at every level. Fairly heavy wheels and tyres coupled with meatier drivetrain make this a bit more ponderous, but the trade off is that it's straightforward, a laid back all rounder and easy to grab for a quick ride. First thing you notice about this bike is that its rather pretty. At road.cc every product is thoroughly tested for as long as it takes to get a proper insight into how well it works. Sign up to get our latest products, top deals and inspiring stories straight to your inbox. It also feels light to ride and to handle and is very light for bikes at the RRP of 500 (weighing in at 11.4kg on my scales). Height and reach spot on for my height. Already have an account with us? Here its not critical but it looks good, and if you decide to t cross tyres and go pinging around your local bridleways you might be glad of the reinforcement. Ride to work with mudguards and rack. List the components used to build up the bike. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. I've been riding for: 10-20 yearsI ride: Most daysI would class myself as: Experienced. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. Will they be compatible somehow? BikeRadar provides the world's best riding advice. Still only a hint of pink to try and keep the opposing camps happy, Best Cycling Website, BikeBiz Awards 2018, in: 2 dead, 3 injured after driver crashes into charity cyclists, in: Commonwealth Games apologises to England tandem team, in: SoulCycle offers free classes for Peloton Bike trade-in, I could have been paralysed Top Irish cyclo-cross racer sustains broken bones due to trap on mountain bike trail, Cervelo launches new S5, Vingegaards Tour de France-winning aero road bike, Transcontinental Race: Defending champion Fiona Kolbinger has purse and tracker stolen while sleeping, Near Miss of the Day 806: Shocking footage shows driver reversing at cyclist and running over dog, Google Maps makes major update to cycling navigation, Naked tandem couple hit by driver in Scotland make it to Lands End, Teenage cyclist to stand trial after pedestrian seriously injured, Near Miss of the Day 807: Driver comes out with maniacal laugh after pulling out on cyclist. You are using a browser that does not support javascript. Twitter How would the controls work for larger or smaller riders? I've justfinished this too, and it's a good read. compares with items of similar spec, quality, and price. Boardman Bikes have released details of their fi (female informed) bikes for 2012. would you recommend any changes? And although it looks similar to the 2010 bike, the alloy frame is all new according to Boardman. The Ritchey OCR rims are eyeleted and the spoke holes are offset from the centreline thats what OCR means: Off-Centre Rim. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. There is a fee for all collections, except for faulty products. Topping the list is the Road Carbon at 1299.99, which changes from white to silver (with pink highlights) this year. Our mission is to bring you all the news thats relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Where do you want to look?All France /r/nAlsace /r/nAquitaine /r/nAuvergne /r/nBrittany /r/nBurgundy /r/nChampagne-Ardenne /r/nCorsica /r/nFranche-Comt /r/nLanguedoc-Roussillon /r/nLimousin /r/nLoire Valley-Centre /r/nLorraine /r/nMidi-Pyrnes /r/nNord-Pas-de-Calais /r/nNormandy /r/nParis-le-de-France /r/nPays de la Loire /r/nPicardy /r/nPoitou-Charentes /r/nProvence-Alpes-Cte d'Azur /r/nRhne-Alpes /r/n. Riding the Hybrid Comp Fi is definitely far from a chore. The frame also can take mudguards and is rear rack compatible. But theres more to making a good bike than throwing money at it. Not the lightest but solid and confidence inspiring. The 10-speed drivetrain is mostly SRAM Apex, with an outboard-bearing compact chainset driving an 11-28T cassette. Get a Snycros iS Couple bottle cage when you subscribe to Mountain Biking UK today! var po = document.createElement('script'); po.type = 'text/javascript'; po.async = true; If you plan to go off-road youd be even happier with a wider gear range. The world champion rainbow banding might be a little over the top on a hybrid though, and the white handgrips wont stay that way for longer than a week or so. Like this site? If you like the site, can we ask a favour? Measurements are in millimeters and degrees. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. 2008present unless otherwise stated. Because its hydraulic rather than mechanical you wont get water ingress into the calliper and performance will be unaffected on the road or off. Definitely. So not only do they not get a deserved medal, they have to pay the twats at the UCI 172 eachbecause they, rightly, performed a small Milan looks like the perfect lead-out man to me while he learns. The wheels should be strong enough for pitted streets and off-road excursions. So as a light rider who also tours with fairly light loads, I would lean in favour of the Boardman, on a paper comparison at least. try to break anything (except locks) but we do try to look for weak points in any design. Boardman Hybrid Comp 2014, 499.99 from Halfords. How did it compare to other bikes of the same stated size? Well balanced and not just miniaturized. If you like road.cc, but you dont like ads, please consider subscribing to the site to support us directly. Carbon blades, crown and differential steerer, forged alloy dropouts, FSA Gossamer forged alu two-piece compact, steel spindle, 175mm arms, 50/34 alloy rings, FSA external alloy cups, sealed cartridge. Whats with all these off-road references? Do intervals on it in the lanes. Privacy and Cookies. Boardman bikes are always good value, with spec levels that can make rivals look ordinary by comparison. would you recommend any changes? Neutral steering. The practical ttings are here too, with separate eyelets for rack and mudguard at the dropout and a set of rack eyelets on the wishbone seatstay. The Official Tour de France 2022 program and race guide includes stage times and maps. Pretty and practical about town bike not the most fun ride, but what it lacks in spec it makes up for in style, Hybrid do-it-all with a bit of edge and attitude, just as happy around town as it is on the byways, A fun retro-inspired steel bike that's very good for flat commutes, though some speccing falls into 'style over substance', Good flat-barred road bike that will help riders who are scared of drop bars to rack up decent mileage, Editorial, general: info [at] road.cc Lara has been riding bikes for longer than she'd care to admit, and writing about them nearly as long. Ride was unchallenging, but sporty enough to be useful as a year round fitness bike. Fantasy Cycling: game [at] road.cc Combining World-class frame design with female specific geometry, superior materials and components results in a bike which feels natural to ride, is comfortable and offers excellent pergormance at every level." She willride anything with two wheels, occasionally likes to go fast, definitely likes to go far and is always up for a bit of exploring somewhere new and exciting. It has bags of room over its 28mm tyres, or you could t cyclo-cross tyres (more on that later). The Boardman collection is split into the more budget (but still very well-specced) Performance Series, sold exclusively through Halfords, and the higher end Elite Series, sold through a network of independent retailers. Good scores are more common than bad, because fortunately good products are more common than bad. The Road Comp fi is priced at 799.99 and features an alloy frame with carbon fork. They're well suited to those who prefer the light touch and stopping power of mountain bike brakes without the hassle of maintaining and adjusting hydraulics. As a subscriber you can read road.cc ad-free, from as little as 1.99. 'Assumed' because, of course, it doesn't necessarily follow that you conform to the standard but at least the better bike shops and even Halfords these days have staff with the experience to sit you on a bike and check out the vital criteria. The back of the bike feels rock solid. I regularly do the following types of riding: commuting, touring, general fitness riding, mtb. Theoretically you get a stronger wheel because the spokes are less steeply angled, and even if the effect is minimal you dont lose anything by it. On the plus side, if you want to t cyclo-cross tyres or ride without mudguards, fatter tyres will go on this 18mm rim readily. Tech, reviews: tech [at] road.cc If you are a more sedate rider or looking to take this bike on longer tours, you might want a slightly more upright, comfortable riding position (though this applies to many fast and sporty hybrids). i'm no expert - but disk road wheels at that sort of price point are going to be unbranded or used i think - ebay is your friend here I think. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? The important thing, though, is that it comes in sizes Small, Medium and Large or 46, 50 and 52.5cm if you prefer your sizing continental. A plumper saddle might help too. What are you looking for?All Accommodation Cycling Plus is the UK's best selling monthly road cycling magazine. Like this site? In the urban environment they give you all the stopping power you need and then some, with decent modulation. Worked well in all conditions I encountered, including wet roads. Its a model on which you can put the hammer down, but sometimes youll feel the road surface hammering back. Thanks! Made in Scotland. OK - so here it is - my much loved Boardman Hybrid Comp 2012 is up for sale _ i'm not gonna lie and say it is in mint condition - it has done 2000 miles odd, but has served me incredibly well. For serious off road riding though with some road capability you could also look at the Boardman cyclocross range. A gear range of 28" to 123" (around 424%) from the 18 gears means plenty of low gears for climbing and a top gear to satisfy the most hardcore downhill speed freaks. Was the bike comfortable to ride? RSS, 2011-2021 Freewheeling France | Copyright, Cookies, Privacy and Advertiser T&Cs | Web design by GEL Studios, Everything you need to know about cycling in France, is the author of the official English-language, guidebook to the Veloscenie Paris-Mont-Saint Michel, Sustrans guide to the London-Paris Avenue Verte, 2022 Official Tour de France program and race guide, Copyright, Cookies, Privacy and Advertiser T&Cs. Our mission is to bring you all the news thats relevant to you as a cyclist, independent reviews, impartial buying advice and more. Add mudguards and a rack and you are starting to look at something capable of short tours on roads and tracks, even if you might not want to take it on a month-long off-road odyssey around the Alps. Any particularly good or bad components? (function () { The 100mm travel fork changes from a Rockshox Recon SL to a Suntour Epicon, shifting and braking are handled by SRAM X5 and Avid Juicy 3s, and the crankset is FSA Alpha Drive 44/32/22. Some aspects of this site may not work as intended. Wiggle - Descends fine. All Tours For questions visit Customer Services. Or just use it for hammering around on. The predominantly white paintjob, with flashes of hot pink and black would by no means offend even the most macho of male palates, and the overall look is of a sporty and attractive bike. Believing fervently that cycling will save the world, she wishes that more people would just ride a bike and be pleasant to each other. On the flat a little disappointing in the speed stakes, feeling a little sluggish, but perfectly acceptable ride. Im confused? Clos du Magnolia Cycling B&B, Orb River Valley, Guidebook: Cycling the Wild Atlantic Way and Western Ireland, What are you looking for? Your feedback has been received! would you recommend any changes? Your subscription will help us to do more. Not especially quick from a standing start. Chris Boardman, Director of R&D, Boardman Bikes. Mechanical disc brakes ideal for female riders, allowing good stopping power without having to haul on the levers, but without the hassle or weight penalty of hydraulics. Lightweight aluminium makes the bike strong and responsive, and ideal for winter training. Find bikes that match your geometry criteria. Please contact us and we can arrange to collect these from you using our discounted courier rates. Its a reasonably sure-footed descender, although not as nippy on corners as perhaps it could be. It certainly looks a lot more expensive than its very reasonable 499.99 price tag. Pinterest Its light, pacy and racy but it also has the clearances and capacity for non-technical rough stuff. If you changed the tyres to a decent, wider touring tyre (something like a Schwalbe Marathon Racer), the bike would be transformed into something that would handle trails much more comfortably, most likely without any noticeable loss of speed on the road. The tyres are a budget model (Zaffiro) from Vittoria and are high pressure road bike tyres (up to 120psi) with some puncture protection. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. })(); eXotic Full Carbon Riser Handlebar 60.49, Aquapac Toccoa Waterproof Daysack 28L 50, Rideworks Narrow Wide Thick Thin MTB Chainrings 38, Students handmade cycle bag to go into production, Brompton Bicycle wins Queens Award for Enterprise: International Trade, David Millar To Re-Join The Peloton For The Maserati Tour De Yorkshire Ride, Avid BB5 mechanical disc brakes, 160mm rotors, Alloy body, steel cage, toe clips & straps. Things such as the SRAM X5 gear components and BB5 cable operated disk brakes are dependable and reliable in terms of quality performance and durability. More information on Wiggle's return policy, Frame: Lightweight alloy triple butted, full smooth welding. In comparison with other bikes of this size I have tried it felt more even and less 'tiny'. While we strive to ensure that opinions expressed The transmission runs smoothly and with no fuss, whilst the Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes are reliably effective. Of course, for women there are also a fair number of pastel colour schemes which will either have you cooing or gnashing your teeth. Its kitted out with SRAM Apex gears, Tektro R730 brakes, and FSA Gossamer Compact 48/34 crankset and Mavic CXP22 wheels. Its ideal for those getting into sportier cycling or wanting to get fit, or as a general purpose machine. Terms & conditions, Wiggle Ltd. 1000 Lakeside, Suite 310, Third Floor N E Wing, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO6 3EN, United Kingdom, VAT No: GB 884 2571 94 | Company No: 02667809. Terms of Service apply. Tell us some more about the handling. Wouldn't change. The chainstays are shorter than on some of the Boardmans competitors and both chain- and seatstays are pretty beefy. The 32 reinforced hole double wall rims look up to the rigours of city commuting on potholed UK streets and light to moderate touring for that matter as well. An 18mm-wide wheel rim is also approaching the limit of whats comfortable with a 28mm tyre tted. Hybrid bike, suited to training rides, fitness riding, recreational riding, commuting and general purpose. Its specced with Shimano 105 brakes and gears, an FSA Gossamer Pro 50/34 crankset and Mavic Aksium wheels. Yes, a lot. Would you consider buying the bike? By continuing to use the site you acceptour cookie policy. Which components had the most effect (good or bad) on the bike's comfort? Our reviewers are experienced cyclists that we trust to be objective. Britain's Best Selling Road Cycling Magazine. Geometry Geeks. We've got 11,000+ bikes in the comparison database. Tweet Boardman is clearly proud of his personal input into the designs and has remained at the heart of British cycling research and Team GB's pursuit of two-wheeled speed and Olympic success; in short Boardman bikes aren't just a branding exercise. According to Director of R&D Chris Boardman, "The all-new 2012 Fi range builds upon the successful and ever-popular initial offering and includes input from our world-class female athletes, combined with my own cycling heritage to deliver a series of bikes specifically designed for women who enjoy cycling at every level.". Only this: in many ways the Boardman Hybrid Team feels less like a at-bar road bike than a at-bar cyclo-cross bike. Did it feel efficient? Some forums say 8/9/10 speed should all be compatible on some hubs? Easy to take care of and should last well. The top Boardman racer, the Team Carbon Fi features all the upgrades recently made to the standard unisex Team Carbon for the same price including higher-grade carbon fibre to improve the strength-to-weight ratio of the frame, a BB30 bottom bracket and tapered headtube and steerer for improved control and responsiveness. are backed up by facts, reviews are by their nature an informed opinion, not a definitive verdict. i'm going to suggest these - disks generally fit with six screws, there is a centre lock system but I doubt you have that (shimano wheels mainly), dropouts / through axles are a much newer thing on road bikes so your 2012 will have standard 9mm quick releases. One of his many projects since retirement from cycle racing has been the establishment of Boardman Bikes and they have garnered a reputation as being good value for money and sporty high performers to boot. View our media pack. Ultimately, for 499.99 its incredibly good value, especially if youre looking for a go to bike to grab from the shed for most riding purposes. Like the other bikes, the alloy frame comes in three sizes: 54.5 (SM), 56.5 (MD) and 58cm (LG) effective top tube lengths. The wife has a Boardman fi Hybrid comp 2012 model and the wheels are goosed. The revenue from adverts helps to fund our site. Waiting for a bike company to offer a lifetime of free rides outdoors to anyone who cancels their Soul Cycle membership and buys a bike. Anything further to say about the bike in conclusion? We will happily refund any item purchased on Wiggle if returned to us within 365 days; excluding Wiggle gift vouchers, nutrition and customised products, except when faulty. But, given the weight penalty and extra drag of the mountain bike drive train, the beefy 700c wheels and tyres and the disc brakes, it shouldnt really come as a surprise that it takes a while to get up to speed, and seems to prefer to potter along at a more sedate pace. The wifes bike is 9 speed. Mechanically sound, fully serviced with a new chain/cassette/cogs/pads this year (2014) - in fact to be fair, the only issue is the frame is marked (partly from a frame bag & partly from one or 2 close shaves) and hence it is not the prettiest in the world - a couple of marks on the drive chain spider and a scuff on the rear mech - but thats it - just cosmetic and doesn't affect performance - but also reflected in the comically low asking price. Tel 01225 588855. How did the bike feel overall? The Boardmans carbon fork is unusual in that it has a carbon steerer instead of an aluminium one, which saves weight. The big issue is that women are usually just smaller and most 'men's' bikes only have one shortest-but-not-quite-short-enough size upon which the great majority of average-height women have to be forced, whether they fit very well or not. So I would probably only change to slightly lighter wheels, if that. Youd gain a sub-30in bottom gear and youre still not going to spin out that 117in top on tarmac. Help us to make it better. Brakes are Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic discs, which are the kind of stoppers you see on decent entry-level mountain bikes. Tell us how you felt about the ride quality. How does that compare to your own feelings about the bike? The size small I had for review (54cm) was perfectly set up for me at 5ft 5 inches and was a really comfortable fit and riding position. The good news is that as more women have taken up cycling lately - and complained with justification - the makers including Boardman have responded with ranges that include a better selection of smaller sizes for a start and then usually shorter top tubes for each size to correspond to the assumed shorter torso. The Shizuoka .001 is the most direct competitor and for only 50 more it boasts hydraulic disk brakes and claims a lighter weight (bike weight figures given on websites are almost invariably heavier than the bike you get). - Hotels, hostels and B&Bs Your details are safe and will not be sold to a 3rd party, we promise.